**************The below contents have already been integrated to other web pages of the project like /documentation.html and /todo so that this text file is now redundant with the rest********** -------------- This is copy of some messages I sent to one possible programmer, so that all useful information remains ready for all possible programmers. Refered Documents are this same folder /tforum/ ------- So here I will start sending you the useful excerpts from the conversation I had with Laure. Unfortunately, although she said that she did much work, she nearly sent me nothing of it. I did not really require her to send me anything, as I expected that she would publish a new version of the software that would make obsolete all previous information (the bugs list of the previous version...). Then the conversation went bad and everything interrupted. The main thing I got from her is that she had put all the conversation I had with previous programmers, that I sent her, into a big table. Also, the only technically meaningful output that I can find from all the messages she sent me, is her remark that "the database was not protected" (strange, as the previous programmers once said that they had been working to fix it): that it would be possible to corrupt it by sending special requests (with invalid data, special characters ', " , / , *) to the server. Also is her remark that contrary to what had been initially required, the existing releases do not have the form of a list of separately presented modules. Attached is her table of the useful contents of my conversation with previous programmers. If you like I can attach you the full text of that conversation (not all messages of course but all those I sent her including the useful ones and a few of the less or not useful, from which she made the table). ---> file Exchanges3.html To sum up the situation: before her I had correspondance with 2 programming teams in Minsk (Belarus), one "frozen team" that did some work from which I got partial output but they disappeared then, then only the "webdevs" continued the work, the last year of which was by the contact with "Sasha" also called Alexander Yaroshevich, that was the "technical person" discussing technical details as opposed to "webdevs" with whom, from then on, I only discussed payment. The second attachment is, according to what she said, the same table reduced by selecting all what speaks about wiki/PWP (PWP= Personal Web Pages) (but also other things) with her comments in French. However this is not the most relevent information about wiki, since I never really cared to explain the specifications for wiki in that previous conversations, as I did not charge that previous programmers to make it. The most important information especially about the specification for wiki, is in my messages to Laure, that I will send you next after translation from French to English ------> file /wikispec. Also I will send you tomorrow another exerpt of the table that I had made to help her, selecting from the main table the specification for dating, but it is only selected up to some particular day (after which it is the full table identical to the first one). To sum up for you all the situation: You can find the last 2 releases on my web page (spoirier.lautre.net/trustedforum.html), and the last one it is what you can test (see at http://spoirier.lautre.net/en/userdoc.htm). The testing version has the advantage of being 2 virtual servers so you can test how it works between different servers, except that they are only virtually separate, so that Laure suspected that it would work much less good with truly different servers. There may be an interest to check the 2006 release in that the work had been so badly organised that the developments were first made from a previous obsolete version, then maybe not all correction made for 2006 have been reintegrated in 2007. What is the work to do (that was supposed to have been done but I could not get): - Integrate a wiki system, and rebuild the forums system on it (each forum message will be an integrated little wiki with its own history and rights system; so that not all the bugs of the present code need to be fixed, but some parts will be just replaced by completely different things). - Test and fix all other bugs - Reintegrate a better version of the dating, inspired from what was in the release January 15th 2006 that had many defects (all details of what to do better you will find in the conversation, and a few other details in my messages to Laure that I will send you tomorrow). - A little first step towards the trust system, has been specified as a development of the contacts list part, so that if you want to work on the contacts list, you should care of this (this was agreed to be not done yet by Laure). Here is a list of components of the project (that were not properly distinguished in the code, according to Laure). - GLS (all user authentications including the one of "email user", multiple pseudos, network functionalities...) -> this aims to be the infrastructure of tomorrow's internet, thus should be made very secure. - forum - forum - rights system - folder system - Contacts list - Translations - "webmail" reduced to the function sending an email message function, by a link from the contacts list - admin panel (with its own different parts concerning the different components) - Wiki / PWP (still not existing in the releases that were made; to do as soon as possible) - Dating - Trust system (next thing to make) - News and calendar (to do later) - Money system (more difficult, not to start now but only after one year or two) Note: the necessary separation between (forum and rights) on the one hand, (folders) on the other hands, is due to the fact that for every given user, through GLS it usually does not work on the same machine: folder system in the home host of the user, and forum and rights work on remote hosts. In fact, the folders system could as well be used to relate to other things than forums. I just notice that she only included in the table the contents of the email messages that I had with programmers (but maybe not the attachments, I will see tomorrow), but not the contents of the "conversation with programmers" private forum that has been done in the trust-forum.php.by installation, that, serving as a replacement for email according to the goal of the project, has hosted a part of the conversation. (Strange that she did not include it, as I had sent her twice by email this copy) So now I attach for you a copy of this conversation that happened inside the trust-forum.php.by installation: file converswithprogrammers I continue to sum up the ideas of the project: I do not know exactly how the GLS now works. I fear it's not very good since Laure said she had it completely redone. But I wonder why, I have no details. She had first criticised PHP as not a good language for it, then finally she announced a new GLS still entirely in PHP. The question is to have a solution not too difficult to install by many people (one every some hundreds or thousands users) to new hosts, and still reliable and secure. The "email user" functionality is a temporary feature to make life easier during the expansion of the use of the program, until it will be of universal use. Indeed, as long as it is not universal use, there needs to be a way to communicate between users and not-yet-users who only have email, that is called, an email user. Such users can access forum just like a remote user by GLS, by using a key in received email messages; and receive the contents of the messages written by others, to their email address. For translations system: as you can see in table, among the 4 functions, two are to be replaced by one (edit from 2 given versions) + order the different translations files by some versions system A big part of the present concern is to arrive to some well-working version of what is now nearly working (with bugs). So first you should understand what has been tried. For this, one the one hand, just try reading the user documentation and entering the available system, on the other hand please go through the table of descriptions. Dating system -> most of the goals are described in the table but not done yet The GLS has been done twice, one by Frozen team (who did also the webmail) then it was redone independently by the webdevs for being integrated with the forum, I don't know why. So you'll find that among files... Now here is some information in random order: - among the many bugs is the fact the recall password functionality does not check anything, so it had to be disabled in the trust-forum.php.by. - The GLS aims to be a new open protocol for internet, to authentify users, working on top of other protocols. - Maybe we should discuss everything on the phone, to help put ideas in order. Just send me a phone number and a time you want (but only in be morning and beginning of afternoon for you because of the time change between Peru and Europe), and I'll call you. My own phone at home is +33 2 35210580 or +33 953641974 but from Friday I'll be travelling. - In 2006, the corrections and development of the dating system has been discussed but not done - The other modif to do to the translation system is to make a different file for dating (and more generally for the future, new components have their own separate translation file) - Here is an overview of some aspects of the trust system that should be implemented later. Don't do it now but the perspective may suggest you how the forums system should be prepared internally: There will be trust and complaint declarations. You can see some aspects described in the /trustedforum.html web page. For any division "with parties" will be a forum where happens the trial about it. This will contain an automatic invitations system that is not an invitation of someone by someone, but an invitation by the system to "spread the conflict", one more person to participate in the debate and take part until the situation becomes "logically stable", that is one part will be isolated and must abdicate something to recover relationship with the rest of the world. Nearly the same trial system by forum, will be also used for monetary conflict, in relation with my credit theory. > About GLS: > 1. Is it finished? As far as I cansee, in the demo app I only could create > a > pseudo, but I couldn't connect to another server using that pseudo. A version has been done but I don't know how satisfactory it is. From trust-forum.php.by you cannot connect to any peer site because it is installed with zero known peer site. From tforum1.php.by/gls it had been possible to connect to a peer site (namely tforum2.php.by/gls) but unfortunately as I'm trying again now I see it does not work anymore. So I don't know what happened. I'm forwarding this reply to the person who maintains this: a.yaroshevich at php.by. I hope he will answer. ----------------ideas to unify Forum with Instant Messaging------------ For merging 2 concepts you have to make a list of differences between them, and see for every difference what you can do to keep the best possibility or let the option to do according to the needs. I see the following 3 differences. Tell me if you see other ones. - In IM, as soon as the other posts a message its content appears on my screen, even if I'm writing something else. I see no reason to refuse this, except for bandwidth problem if I'm not watching here. The regular connexion involved here can also be used for regularly (every 5 or 10 seconds ?) automatically saving (in the sense I defined in the project) what I'm writing. - In IM, message is posted at every press of return button. This is still in principle an independent option that every user could choose and switch at any time independently of the other users. - Some mere display differences for the same type of content. Can we define a display style that will be always the best, or should we let users the option of the display style they choose ? Consider the following idea for a display style: Draw a horizontal line for the separation of days In the left margin, put on the left of every message the author and time. another aspect of IM: when we are not looking to the discussion we are warned when there is a new message. For this, I had the idea that the home site sends signals to all sites with session of user so that he is warned and can call home site to know more. But there is the problem that for privacy reasons, the info should not be sent to other servers. I wish there would be a solution where the pages from remote sites would include a way for the browser to connect to home site and display the signal directly to the user. For example the display of a little image from home site, that would be different whether the user has new message or not. -------------- I'm very sorry that the documentation is not well-ordered. In order to orient you, let's start by the following indications, because there are very big files with very little interest (all what was discussed with previous programmers about what had been done or was not well done, the many bugs, some diverse thoughts...), and there are small files that present all the main ideas that you should focus on : So it is a big project with different parts, and each part may be discussed separately. For an introductory presentation from the user's viewpoint,see http://spoirier.lautre.net/en/userdoc Unfortunately, it does not describe everything. For example, it des not describe the admin panel. I recall you what I already sent you a few other things, that is copied at http://spoirier.lautre.net/tforum/ourdiscussion A list of some remarks of what is not satisfactory and should be corrected from the present version, is at http://spoirier.lautre.net/tforum/mayjuneremarks Some parts are already more or less working, but have bugs, so the problem is to make a list of bugs and fix them. But it may not be necessary to correct the part "forum messages" as such because they will have to be replaced by more sophisticated functions: it will have to be rebuilt upon the wiki part of the project, and a unification with instant messaging should be considered. When I was with Andrew, we had some discussion about this question of unifying the systems of forum and instant messaging, so you can discuss about it with him. So, for this you should focus on the wiki spec first. http://spoirier.lautre.net/tforum/wikispec For the rest, it may be simpler if every time you wonder about something concerning what has been done, you write me about it so I will tell you how I want it to be. Another, independent part, is the dating system. A first version has been done in the previous release, that you may re-use to save some time, but it was very incomplete and unsatisfactory. The last full specification for it is here: http://spoirier.lautre.net/en/datingspec knowing that user registration does not belong to the dating part (users exist before creating their dating file), and that the personal web pages/wiki and the public and private forums that are involved there, are just involvements of the other parts of the project into this one, so that these other parts must be conceived in such a way that such involvements will be possible. Another new part, that makes sense only by the fact it is the first step towards further developments that I will specify later and that you don't need to know yet at this point, is the trust declarations part that is defined as a development out of the existing contacts list : http://spoirier.lautre.net/tforum/trustsystem I think that all the main information of the specification is contained in the files mentioned above. If I remember well, the other files present in the folder are much less important, may be drafts, and their contents may be in large part obsolete.